Argh, I can't stand it anymore (Zelda rant) [!OT]

[mrwiseman]

I can't stand it anymore, here's the rant I've been keeping for myself for too long:

I don't know what's the matter with everybody, 2 color super-deformed kiddie graphics are lame and you know it; if this game were being released for the PS2 instead of the GC you'd all laugh your assess off at it and keep repeating how do its graphics suck for weeks. I can't believe how come people, who once hated Nintendo for what they did to the great Zelda, are now drooling over what Miyamoto decided to do one night after drinking far too much. I can't understand why are you saying such ugly graphics are great now, and talking in their favor, when people like me say that they don't think grotesque models with PS2 texturing and semi-monochrome rendering is the least amazing thing in the world. I don't mind if the game is fun or not, you had all sorts of fun games for years, and now this one doesn't even amaze visually, so what's the big deal? If at least you admitted graphics are lame but the game is so fun it hurts, I could understand, but with the current flow of posts, you'll end up saying that it looks better than Shenmue!

What is it? Is it because it's under Nintendo's name? Is it because it's for GameCube? Is it because it's a Zelda game? Or it's just that you let yourselves be brainwashed by Nintendo's hype?

If a game like this was released for the Dreamcast, be it a Zelda, a Sonic, a Shenmue or even a Xeno game, and it had the same hype and success of Zelda, and you said exactly what you're saying about it, I would still say these graphics suck so much they make my stomach sick. And it's not that I'm an all-graphics guy, far from that - I hate Sonic Adventure 2, a game with some of the best graphics ever, because its gameplay is so bad I might throw the controller out of the window while playing (and to think Sonic was my favorite saga before Grandia II, I never imagined I would say what I did of a Sonic game).

[Xellos]

Uhm no, I never hated Nintendo nor what they did to Zelda. And if it were released for PS2, as osme GTA game or something w/the same good gameplay and graphics, I'd sitll love it.

And thet thing is, they aren't kiddy! You've never seen them outside of the damn screen shots and videos, you've never seen them in action! They are amazing when you play the game! The grahics aren't lame, that's the entire point. I'd rather have a game w/these graphics than a game w/ the graphics of the Final Fantasy movie.

And SA2's gameplay isn't that bad, the Sonic and Shadow levels are better than any of SA1s action stages. Especially Sonic's final level, that there can take some real skill to beat on hard or under the time limit. SA2 was just a dissapointment because Tails/Eggman sucked, noa dventure stages, and Rouge/Knuckles sucked, but it wasn't as bad as you say.

Anyways, back to Zelda.

This game has the BEST gameplay I've ever played, it definetly has the best Zelda plot, and it's pretty damn long! My only problem w/it is that it's a bit too easym because you take only maybe a heart of damage from the monsters befroe you killed em. But the abttle system is pretty fun, much better than OoTs, w/counters, diffeerent combos, and a few other things I'mt oo tired to think about right now. Plus, you get one of the better cameras I've seen in awhile!

I'm not saying Celshaded is good for every game, on a dark RPG, it'd be horrible, but on games like Zelda, which was meant to be a game for all ages, w/a lighthearted feel to it, it is perfect.

OoT and MM were the mistakes graphically, Miyamoto ahs saidd this in interviews: He wanted to make the 64 games w/celshaded, but the 64 sasn
t capable of handling it, so he had to go w/the realistic style because he knew that Zelda had to go 3D to survive.

All I'm saying is that you are sayign a game sucks and has horrible graphics when you've never even played it or seen someone else playing it. Like DLC said, the world seems alive alla round you when you play it because of the new graphics.

What ticks me off, is that someone I repsect is acting like a typical Sony fanboy, not wanting to play a game because they've seen different graphics,a dn not even giving the game, or it's graphics a chance.

[mrwiseman]

I'll reply your posts in the HOLY SHIT thread and this one:

Wuould you like Sonic beign completely 3D, using SHenmue style,a nd not being a short fat plumber?

(?) I don't understand quite right the flat plumber thing, but a completely 3D sonic could be good, one of the bad things about the best Sonic game ever (SA1) is that stages don't have multiple paths like they did in S3&K.

Metroid Prime is realistic, and extremely goodgraphics, better than anything on the PS2, w/the exceptiion FFX-2 maybe

The GameCube, if well exploited, should be kicking the PS2's ass. If its games don't, it's because of Nintendo's piece of shit APIs.

zelda's not meant to be dark like OoT, that was a mistake

OMG, now you're saying this... I remember you liked OoT (the most successful Zelda game ever, BTW), but now, since Miyamoto went crazy with this Zelda and turned kiddy, the previous great Zelda game is bullshit. Am I right?

ever play ALttP?

Yup, liked Soleil's graphics better, though Zelda 3 is better overall.

And thet thing is, they aren't kiddy!

Maybe under YOUR point of view they aren't kiddy, but I can hardly difference this Zelda game from a 3 year old oriented cartoon or a Fisher Price product.

you've never seen them in action!

I'm not even questioning gameplay, I'm talking about graphics alone, and you can get a very good idea of it with videos and high-res screenshots, especially the first.

I'd rather have a game w/these graphics than a game w/ the graphics of the Final Fantasy movie.

Sorry but... LOL. A game with those graphics would be my sweetest dream (well, actually my sweetest dream would be... [noseblood] er... let's go back to topic).

And SA2's gameplay isn't that bad, the Sonic and Shadow levels are better than any of SA1s action stages.

Depends on your idea of amusement. Personally, I don't find falling into the void again and again much fun, especially when it's because the fucking camera doesn't feel like showing what it should, and you can't change it because it'll only screw you back as soon as you move; plus stages are a lot of islands over a huge void so easy to fall in, and you can't even think of the word "explore" because cameras make this 3D game somewhat a 2D game (or should I say 1D?).

This game has the BEST gameplay

As I said, I don't even question gameplay. All I'm talking about now is graphics. If you want, I can accept it has great gameplay without even playing. All I'm bitching about is sucky graphics, no complaints on gameplay.

My only problem w/it is that it's a bit too easy

I'm not surprised

which was meant to be a game for all ages

And I see "all ages" include 1, 2 and 3.

lighthearted feel

I'd rather say kiddy and simplistic.

OoT and MM were the mistakes graphically

Refer to my previous comment. Plus if they were, mistake after mistake doesn't give a nice image of a developer, don't you think so?

Miyamoto ahs saidd this in interviews

I don't give a damn about what this guy says to hype his bizarre Zelda. Just keep in mind cel-shading didn't exist back at the times of Zelda OoT, so he's lying.

All I'm saying is that you are sayign a game sucks and has horrible graphics when you've never even played it or seen someone else playing it.

I never said gameplay sucks, I just say graphics suck big time (which I can evaluate without actually playing), and I saw someone else playing it.

What ticks me off, is that someone I repsect is acting like a typical Sony fanboy

That's what I wanted to say. You even convinced yourself of how good the new Zelda graphics are and that they aren't kiddy (when that modelling and coloring style is kiddy for most citizens on Earth), just because it's a long awaited Miyamoto's Zelda game for the Nintendo GameCube, which Nintendo says to be the best of the best. (Talking about graphics only.)

wanting to play a game because they've seen different graphics

Change "different" by "sucky", to me at least. And it's pretty logical that I'm no longer interested on it, I was expecting a game close to perfection, and I got a game far from that, because of graphics. To be near perfect, you gotta be near perfect in everything. And I'm not spending ?? in a new hardware to get sucky graphics and only a few interesting games (to me). I was much likely going to buy a GC when I thought they would keep they word and make that BRUTALLY AMAZING, epic, serious Zelda with jaw-dropping graphics, jaw-dropping sound, and I suppose jaw-dropping gameplay as well (otherwise I wouldn't like it anyway). But the game I was most interested on got screwed, and logically I don't want the GameCube that much now.

not even giving the game, or it's graphics a chance

I did give the graphics a chance. Many, actually. Wasted my bandwidth downloading cartoons. The music in some of them was nice though. But it's not from the game, I've heard.

I believe I said somewhere that I would give it a try if I got the chance someday, just for the nice gameplay.

[mrwiseman]

Oh, and back to the fanboy thing: Saying I don't like something is not being a fanboy. I'm not talking in any platform/company/saga/game favor, nor I'm systematically bashing any platform/company/saga/game.

And if you don't believe me, think of this: I love the Dreamcast. I was a GC enthusiast as well, till I got deeply disappointed with its games (not because of Zelda alone, don't even count Zelda here if you want). Even now I keep repeating that the GC hast the best hardware, because only because I don't like its games it doens't make it worse. I hate the PS2 because of the nasty thing fanboys and sony did to a good (and better) system. And even hating it and not liking the hardware, I got one just for the cool games that were starting to be released. And even now, having a PS2, and being technically good for me that it gets hyped so I get more games and it lasts longer, I keep repeating it sucks, and most of its games suck.

So can you really call me "fanboy"?

[Xellos]

I never praised OoT. It's a great game, but it was never in my top 5 or even 10 list, majora's Mask was, but not OoT.

I wasn't really looking forward to the next Zelda all tha tbad, til I started to see videos and screenshots, and hearing about how good the game play was. Then I started wanting it.

I don't know, btu when I play games w/graphics like Shenmue or FFX, they jsut don't get me involved as much, but w/this game's graphics I can really feel theworld around ya. It jsut is better for me.

On Sonic:

yeah, the cameras suck BIG, but doesn't change the fact that the levels are still funa s shit, at least Sonic and Shadow.

On fanboy:

It's just that msot people that I hear complainging about WW's graphics are the typical Sony fanboys, who think GTA3 and VC are the best games ever made, and that the GameCube is the 'GayCube'. And when I hear you go on and ona bout how kiddy the graphics are, and how simple they are, it make syou sound like the standard Sony fanboy

[mrwiseman]

I never praised OoT. It's a great game, but it was never in my top 5 or even 10 list, majora's Mask was

That's enough for me. So Z:MM was cool till this one arrived, and now that cel-shading is the fashion it sucks?

I don't know, btu when I play games w/graphics like Shenmue or FFX, they jsut don't get me involved as much

The game I got most involved with has PSX graphics (they are kinda realistic), so my involvement with a game doesn't have anything to do with graphics. Second one was Grandia II, a nice goraud shaded game, and one of the most colorful games ever.

yeah, the cameras suck BIG, but doesn't change the fact that the levels are still funa s shit, at least Sonic and Shadow

I like to see what I'm doing when playing Sonic, and I like to explore and clean up the stages, plus I hate falling to the void. Sonic Adventure 2 seriously deceived me.

It's just that msot people that I hear complainging about WW's graphics are the typical Sony fanboys, who think GTA3 and VC are the best games ever made

Well, I don't even like those PS2 games, I prefer this Zelda to them. But I'm no fanboy, I'm always speaking my mind with utter sincerity, and I'm not even 100% loyal to my favorite games, as I changed from Sonic to Grandia II, then to G2 and XG, and I'll probably change to the whole Xeno saga alone when I get my hands on the first chapter

And when I hear you go on and ona bout how kiddy the graphics are, and how simple they are

Well, aren't they? It's the truth. You don't get many GC games as complex and adult/mature/serious/interesting/deep looking than in the Dreamcast. I'm not saying anything untrue just to bash it and praise the PS2; actually, I praise the GC hardware and despise the PS2, but the GC catalogue doesn't allow me to do the same with games.

[justwildbeat]

hmmm well hopefully i won't get attacked in a dark alley . . .

yes the first time i saw the screenshots->1st thought: THAT'S LINK?! O_o what happened to him

they are kiddy, but i've never personally played the game. I believe it still has that same story/action that everyone loves, but not the graphics.

imo i think it's the hype, that influences ppl to buy the game, and THEN once they've played it they like it for the action. i don't have a gamecube b/c it didn't impress me. my lil bro every time he passes a zelda promo (posters, cardboard cut outs) he's starts whinning and gawking and we have to drag him away from it and believe me i know he hasn't the slightest clue as to what the story is about

[PhoenixKingSizer]

I was never really that fasincated by the new Zelda game. I think the cel graphics are kind of a turn off. Normally, I'm not really biased about game graphics, but I really, really hate cels.

Anyway, never played WW, and I probably won't for a very long time. I'm kind of unhappy with it. Why does Link have a sis...?

But as far as the kiddie-stye look. It doesn't bother me much. In fact, I like playing kiddie-style games every once and a while. It's cute. (Which is ironic, because I like gorey stuff too).

[One Classy Bloke]

-_-;; The idea behind the cel-shading was to look like a cartoon. Jet Set Radio created it as it had the graffiti aspect to it and to give the manga feel. Wacky Races used cel-shading to look more like the orignal TV series. ZoE2 uses cel-shading to look like an anime. While some games could work without cel-shading, they are always used to look like a cartoon (with the exception of House of the Dead 3, where it was used to make the game more gory (and it worked!)).

If you look at some of the first screenshots of OoT, the graphics were very colourful, but also very foggy. This could prove Xel's statement where Miyamoto wanted to make OoT cel-shaded. Miyamoto tried to create cel-shading, but was unable to due to the limitations of the hardware back then.

The idea behind WW's cel-shading is to look like a cartoon, (to quote the world's greatest mag, Games Master) "as if ol' Disney or Miyazaki had got out their paintboxes". While i agree that the character design of Link could be improved a bit, i've still accepted these graphics, and i will be rewarded for that.

Just an extra thing and no offence: This topic just screams fanboyism.

[mrwiseman]

IRT Beat:

it still has that same story/action that everyone loves, but not the graphics.


Yup, I think so

i don't have a gamecube b/c it didn't impress me.

Same as me. I wanted to get one, then I found games unimpressive.


IRT Sizer:

I really, really hate cels.

Yay! I was starting to think I was the only one who didn't [img]smile.gif[/img] .

(Which is ironic, because I like gorey stuff too)

[Points to Resident Evil-related posts [img]wink.gif[/img] ]